No more U12 Championship

[weisford]

Greetings from Wexford


Croke park policy is that there will be no more competitive championships/competitions at U12 level and that team size will not be greater than 11 aside.

Research from studies carried out by the gaa themselves show that the participation levels are greater in games that are 11 aside games.

Any views ,

In wexford there are discussions going on to put in place replacement structures that will comply with the guidelines.

[club125]

I've been keeping an eye on this developing situation and I whole heartily agree with the new departure.

Unfortunately the majority of persons involved with underage teams in Offaly would be dead against this. They want fierce competition all the way, most of whom are living their own inadequate football/hurling careers through the children.

I believe the studies are accurate and correct in their prediction that playing numbers will increase overall.

We need to build a base of interested children aged 6-12 and give them as much coaching and play time in a non competitive environment. This will lead to greater numbers progressing on to the other levels.

The biggest argument against the policy of go games and non competitive games is that it holds back the good player. This is not true as what tends to happen under normal competitive conditions is that the biggest or best players dominates the game, the basic skills aren't required if this player has a physical advantage, when size levels out at a later age group this player struggles.

Under a non-competitive environment the better players will have ample opportunity to perfect their skills and ultimately end up as better players.

[weisford]

Yes I would agree with you the overall game will improve.

The 11 aside poses one problem for us in that we have about 25 players on the list and allowing for certain times some one will always be missing but if we average 20 at a tournament we feel that game time will reduce for all players as they will only get half the time.

We are looking at feasiblity of entering two teams and the logistics of that between mentors and players and seeing if we can have a minium of 11 at each venue and thus ensuring that every one is playing all the time or as near too as possaible.

Are the offaly county committe putting in place competitions or will it be up to clubs to run their own tournaments ?

Wexford coiste na Og are looking to organise a series of blitzes to replace the existing league championship.

[mykneehurts]

As both a teacher and a gaa man I couldn't agree with this decision more. Its been shown time and time again that the less competitive a sport is at primary school level the more participants you will have.

I see the problem that clubs might have with the reduction to eleven a side but that's the beauty of removing the competition aspect of the games. There would be nothing stopping two teams playing in a challenge match from playing thirteen a side if they had twenty or so players. Any more than that and two games could be played.

I think blitzes are the way forward for this grade. I can remember my own time at this age group and inconsistency was the word of the day. No one team ever really dominated everyone else and so if there were maybe eight regional blitzes run as often as possible throughout the year it would give almost every team a taste of success and hopefully keep children interested in the sport for longer

[DD]

The removal of the word "championship" is no harm as some managers, mentors and others within clubs are obsessed with “winnin the champinship” and not giving a flying fuck about developing young players.

However the big concern I have is that if this is the directive from GAA headquarters, it’s how our own county bord na nog will react to it. In my opinion this change requires a huge step up in how our games for kids (U8 up to U12) are organised.
People bang on about coaching but the best way for kids to develop is by playing games, games and more games. The idea of the 11 as side (with little or no subs) is very good in theory but will put a huge demand on clubs as regards the number of coaches and mentors required aswell as other things like transport costs for travelling to games and greater demands for playing pitches.
In Edenderry last year there were over 40 young lads playing U10 football and about 30 playing U10 hurling. If we don’t want to lose any of these young fellas we need to ensure there are enough coaches but most importantly there are enough games for them. It’s no use having 3 or 4 U12 teams from Edenderry if they don’t have regular fixtures – if young lads aren’t getting games, they’ll eventually feck off to another sport where they will..
Edenderry were very proactive last year with these age groups as regards organising challenge matches and also a major blitz for the U8 & U10 hurlers but it shouldn’t just be down to the clubs.
The county bord na nog need to look at providing organised fixtures in hurling and football every week from the beginning of May through till the end of August (at a minimum) for all players up to U12. These could be in the form of mini blitzes or a round of games every week but it’s not good enough to leave it to clubs to take the lead on this.

[azoffaly]

I do a bit of coaching here in North Tipp, and I'm delighted at this departure. People (generally speaking some older club 'mentors' and over excitable parents) need to have their minds steered towards the fact that at the age of 6-12 at the very least, the emphasis should be on participation, enjoyment and development. The amount of people who do be roaring and shouting at 7 and 8 year olds in a game against their local rivals is incredible, but it is lessening a bit.

The best way to reinforce this is to make the games themselves appear different to the onlookers. If it's a 7 aside Go game or something, it's hard for them to get mad excited other than shouting nice things at all the players. We run blitzes here, and we basically set it at 7 or 8 a side, with either no subs or at least 3 subs. (1 sub means the young lad is feeling bad about himself). Then all subs get a game, regardless of who's winning, losing, playing well etc. We also rotate positions. No such thing as a goalie at 7 being a goalie at 27. Or a lad dropped in a centre back in an under 10 game, playing well, and lining out at centre back for the rest of his playing life. We'll also have anything from 2 to 4 teams per club, so a blitz is really just a whole pile of games, that bear no relationship to each other at times In one blitz, on a standard size GAA pitch there were 108, that's 108, kids playing at the same time. Small pitches, no subs, 4 or 5 10-15 minute games each with players rotating positions. Every kid gets at least 10-20 touches per game. They absolutely love it.

When outsiders see the kids enjoying themselves in a situation that is obviously gaelic games, and their skills improving, but in an environment that is 100 miles away from 15 or 13 a side 'championship' matches, there's far less bulling and roaring. No one in the coaches ear to switch this fella, or take that lad off, and the kids just do what they want, play, play, play.

From the coaches perspective, all the kids get to enjoy themselves, so they return to training. The kids are learning and applying their skills in a low-pressure, high action game, and are improving all the time.

It's win-win-win.

[azoffaly]

Also, just in regard to DD's comment there about the county board, I completely agree. I'm not sure about Offaly, but in Tipp, the divisional boards at under age (North, Mid, South and West) all have a co-ordinator. These people are employed by the GAA, and they organise a series of blitzes throughout their division, hurling and football (sometimes both together). This year, Mid Tipp is planning to have a blitz in every club in the division, organised by the division and club together. North is planning something similar.

The clubs are usually good to have blitzes, it's the Divisional rep who co-ordinates the dates, puts clubs in contact with each other, publicises them and helps with organisation on the day, without stepping on the toes of the host club. It worked okay last year, but this year is shaping up to be a lot better again.

[kinnittyman]

I'd just like to comment on DD's post regarding Edenderry and how they look after their young players. They have a huge amount of boys wanting to play GAA in the town and in fairness they really do look after them with blitzes and the like. They brought their under 8's and 10's to Kinnitty last summer and gave us a good beating in both and just shows the work that the club is doing with the minority sport in the town. If they sacraficed the hurling for the sake of the football at underage there wouldnt be a word said but fair play to them they are promoting to the hilt. A lot of dual clubs and even hurling clubs could look at the way Edenderry are looking after the underage hurling.

[manfromdelmonte]

its good news, but the county board need to run the competitions and blitzes. otherwise clubs go back to old habits - through lack of adults to look after more smaller teams and running blitzes. and some managers thinking 15-a-side is the only way. i hate comparing GAA to other sports, but rugby in places like New Zealand up to U14 is non competive - ie no knockout competitions but focussed on skill development

managers should be encouraged to adapt the go games rules and give keepers time outfield, let players play in all positions. develop them as all-round players, not positional players

allied to that I would have U11 and U13 blitzes once sept/oct comes. gives games to players stepping up a grade the following year

one thing though: 11-a-side will probably need two pitches to play games, so will all clubs have the facilities???

[the bare biffo]

I have been looking after the U-12's at th elocal club here in Roscommon for the last two years and I would have no argument with this proposal. As a very small club we struggle even at 11 a side but in a go games blitz, as with u-10's you can mix players from both clubs and the idea is that every one gets to play. This doesnt happen when you are playing competitive leagues.
Also the kids here are being harmed for the future because with very small numbers to pick from, we cant compete with even the B teams of the the bigger clubs like Boyle, Roscommon Gaels and Clan na Gael and very quickly develop the notion that they are useless. No matter what coaching you do if kids go out and get thumped in competitive games, year after year they form their own attitudes fairly quickly.

Hopefully extending the non competitive scenario to u-12' will remove that and give the kids more room to enjoy playing for its own sake.

[weisford]

I put this thread up on The Wexfordsupporters forum and got no replys and 81 views in a week .

Here in offaly there are over 400 views and nine responses in half the time.

I take it from that the offaly website is the one to go to if you are looking for a feel of at whats actually happening on the ground in underage.

Overall a favourable response to the changes and some enlightened views.

[Georgio1]

I agree totally with this. I only got involved last year and was at a coaching course in OConnor Park. There was fierce pushback against the u10 championship being done away with.
The argument was that the blitzes are not taken seriously! I mean have they lost the plot? I was amazed that so many young coaches had this atitude.

Players need games, not competition. With young lads, they want to play games and their natural competitive streak will come through.
But the main thing is that all players get a fair amount of coaching, that they learn the skills, and most importantly enjoy doing so.
What I find is that the statement made earlier, "failed parents trying to live their dreams through their kids" is all too true.
Proper blitzes with the emphasis of ensuring all skills are practiced, and players getting to play in all positions is vital. A player will know himself when he is 13/14 how he is doing at football, and can make a decision that they feel they are not up to it or that they want to try some other sport.. I would be ashamed to be part of a set up who would make a final judgement on a childs ability at 9/10/11. At that stage they should be enjoying it and be coached on what they need to work on to improve,
We live in a harsh world and the more children are encouraged to develope, and enjoy sport the better.
It would be great if we could accomadate 3rd and 4th teams at u14 level if we could encourage enough players to keep on playing football and hurling.

[club125]

The Clubs of Offaly in their infinte wisdom decided to buck the National Trend and all the scientific research to vote against the proposal to intorduce the Go Games model at U12 level.............and then we wonder why we are being left behind......Lads we must accept we are a backward people!

[backofthenet]

This is an initiative that is being pushed in all other sports in ireland, soccer and rugby in particular.

I agree with it up to a certain point, but the "everybody wins" can be taken a little too far.

I understand that participation, skill developement etc should be the focus for players from age 8 - 14.

I am involved in coaching under 10s, when i started there was a woman coach whos philosophy was make sure every single game played in training ended in a draw so that nobody lost. I can see her argument, no one went home depressed having lost the game, but i think if you focus on this you lose an important aspect of a players developement.

Young people need to understand you win some, you lose some, Its a simple fact of sporting life. I know when i was playing under 12, (at 9 years of age) I lived for every game, we lost in the county semi final, and sure I was dissapointed for a while but i got over it. And Even if my coach wasnt treating the match as competitive I sure as hell wasnt!

I would fear for that, that determination, that will to win being taken out. I would rather have the under 12 championship with plenty of blitzes thrown in to ensure that every player gets a chance, of course the coaches would put out their best 11 or 15 for every blitz and that is the real problem

[TheManFromFerbane]

Young people need to understand you win some, you lose some, Its a simple fact of sporting life.

And of life in general.