Cowen delivers

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
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Bord na Mona man
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Cowen delivers

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Social welfare and child benefit increases...which should be welcome in Ferbane, Pullagh etc.

First-time buyers of homes to the value of €317,500 will from now on be exempt from paying stamp duty...nice one.

The stamp duty rates on houses up to €635,000 will be reduced...It still means a lot of folk in Clara will have to pay full whack, but what the hell.

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Lone Shark
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Post by Lone Shark »

"Social welfare and child benefit increases...which should be welcome in Ferbane, Pullagh etc. "

Aye. Twill save on some of them Clara wans coming round to our town under a false identity trying to claim twice.

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Loughers
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Has Cowen Delivered?

Post by Loughers »

While I think it's a good budget, has he delivered for Offaly? How many of ye here live/work at home? Clara may be booming (?), but Tullamore isn't (10% unemployment) or Birr (same %). LD used employ over 300 people in Birr. There's been no replacement, not even a small factory. The town is dying. The main street is like a ghost town. We have the lowest 3rd level participation rate in the country and we have a senior minister, a junior minister (Parlon Delivers, me h0le) and a front bench opposition spokesperson. Meanwhile I'm stuck in this h0le (Dublin, if you hadn't guessed) while I'd love to work at home.

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Lone Shark
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Grr...

Post by Lone Shark »

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

You're going to get me all emotional now. The biggest problem with this country is that we ruin ourselves by electing politicians out of whom none seems to want more soup in the bowl, just a bigger spoon for themselves. The man is Minister for Finance for crying out loud, and he's been elected to govern with the interests of the country as a whole at heart. I think it's to our county's great credit that we tend to return TD's with a little bit more to them than the ability to wangle a medical card for my neighbour (which invariably is at the expense of someone else's neighbour don't forget!!), or an uncanny ability to preach about how our area is getting nothing in the local papers while doing nothing themselves other than go to funerals and open supermarkets.

Jackie Healy Rae cost this country €6bn in structural funds due to his intransigence over insisting Kerry was a disadvantaged area, and the ludramáns down there love him for it. Michael Smith votes for the Hanly report, the only hope to save our ailing health service, and then canvasses for Nenagh not to be downgraded, and the troglodytes lap it up. The nature of our society says to me that people who vote for the likes of them should have their vote confiscated, but unfortunately democracy works on the principal of equal rights for the stupid and parochial, so what can you do?

It is hard to take when for years Athlone thrived because Mary O'Rourke looked after her patch, and Charlie McCreevy gave everything going to different clubs in Kildare, and now we seem to be getting the upright decent guy who's doing what he's paid to do - i.e. govern with the best interests of the country at heart. However it's only by stamping down on idiots like Healy-Rae, anyone anywhere who opposes Hanly, and anyone who drags department officials down to their area to create "jobs". (John O'Donoghue moved the family affairs dept - i.e. social welfare and income support - from North Dublin where it was needed, to Killorglin, as far away from as many single mothers and dysfunctional families as you can get.)

While the Birr story is not good news for anyone, the truth is that this is replicated in a lot of towns. You couldn't exactly say Roscrea beside ye is thriving. Ballinasloe is a shell of it's former self. The story repeats itself everywhere. Industries are closing, and our national policy of banana (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anyone) - the natural extension of Nimby - means that everyone wants a nice computer chip factory, but nobody wants manufacturing, nobody wants waste disposal, nobody wants chemical, nobody wants anything where there's growth. Being realistic, all nice small businesses feed off the large stuff. If Derrycarney would take an incinerator, plus the few hundred jobs and families that will go with it, then lo and behold the restaurants, coffee shops, net cafe's and retail outlets in places like Ferbane and Kilcormac will spring up. But everybody out there wants all these things without the incinerator.

We don't have high third level participation because of the fact that for years almost all employment in Offaly was either ESB or Bord na Mona, and the work was either manual or skilled. A background like this is less likely to put a strong emphasis on education for their children than where one or two parents are clerical/teaching etc. AIT is quite local, and very few parts of the county are more than an hour from a university somewhere, either Galway, UL or Dublin, so we have no excuses.

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Bord na Mona man
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Post by Bord na Mona man »

It's up to our local TD's to "look after" us.
That's the mandate on which we elect them.
If Fianna Fail thought they wouldn't get their 3 handy seats in Leix/Offaly, they'd invest more in the region.
Last edited by Bord na Mona man on Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lone Shark
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Local TD's

Post by Lone Shark »

Not at all. The job of the county council is to administer the county. The job of the national TD's is to run the country, and govern in the best interests of the whole country. Just because self interested gombeen men make a show of themselves, their constituents and by extension the people of this country by blatantly disregarding their role and flaunting the abuse of their power is no reason to go for an "everyone else is doing it, why aren't we? If the second highest member of the government is supposed to be just fighting his own little corner, who's left to act in the national interest?

By extension of this parish pump logic, all new hospitals will be built in Dublin West, there will be extra grants for farmers who have to work on granite based land in Donegal, all roads in Waterford will be dual carraigeways, and evry village consiting of more than ten people in Meath will get broadband internet before some county towns. Equally the people of Cavan, Carlow, Mullingar, Longford etc. will just have to wait to get a minister before they get any help in any matter ever.

"Ig, it's up to our local TD's to "look after" us.
That's the mandate on which we elect them. "

I'd like to think that Cowen gets elected for being a competent Minister with a good handle on any of his briefs, an excellent manner in negotiations, and a fair minded administrator who has served his country well. By this logic if he spends all his energy doing the best job possible as Minister for Finance, and as such has less time to scramble around getting medical cards for Grannies, and getting transfers for local guards and nurses, he should then lose his seat to someone who'll revert to doing these things?

(For those who have Grannies in need of medical cards, I stress that there are a finite number of cards out there - every card obtained by a TD for a relative is a card denied to someone somewhere else - and we seem to all want to elect these rogues instead of the person who'll spend his/her time ensuring there's more cards to go round to whoever needs them most!!)

I'm away to start a coup ......

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Bord na Mona man
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Post by Bord na Mona man »

Not at all. The job of the county council is to administer the county. The job of the national TD's is to run the country, and govern in the best interests of the whole country.
If that's the case, would you have any objection if the constituency system was abolished and all TDs came from Dublin?

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TD Duties

Post by azoffaly »

I'm going to have to side with the Clara Man here (BnM I mean). Lone Shark, I'd have to agree with you to a certain extent in that I feel it is wrong for a Minister to abuse power by manipulating his mandate to benefit his own constituency at the expense of others also relying on him. I think Brian Cowen is a decent, honourable man, and would not do that.

However, politics is, was, and always will be a parochial issue. Far more TDs get elected on local issues than on National/International issues.

A TD has a duty to lobby for his constituents. Whether you like or dislike Jackie Healy-Rae is immaterial, the fact is that he tries to look after his own, the people that elect him time after time. Rather than insult the people of South Kerry because of what their TD has managed to secure for them, maybe we should be telling our local TDs to pull the finger out and expend half as much energy as the JHRs of this world.

As I've said, once a minister takes a portfolio, he has to be fair in how he uses that portfolio. A regular TD, however, would be negligent if he sacrificed his own community. He would be negligent, and have a short tenure on his/her seat. TDs represent their own constituency first and foremost. They have a duty to lobby on the issues that affect them directly.

And less of the insults about South Kerry please :)

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Post by Lone Shark »

"However, politics is, was, and always will be a parochial issue. Far more TDs get elected on local issues than on National/International issues. "

In this country it is. I think we suffer for it. The Irish mentality has always been one of disrespect and resentment towards authority, combined with a love of "getting one up" on the government, or taxman, or whatever else. As such we elect the guys who will look after us at the expense of the national good - and be under no illusion, it is at the expense of the national good.

"A TD has a duty to lobby for his constituents. Whether you like or dislike Jackie Healy-Rae is immaterial, the fact is that he tries to look after his own, the people that elect him time after time. Rather than insult the people of South Kerry because of what their TD has managed to secure for them, maybe we should be telling our local TDs to pull the finger out and expend half as much energy as the JHRs of this world. "

This is my point entirely. Jackie Healy Rae cost this country €6bn in EU structural funds, or over €3000 per taxpayer due to his insistence that he would not support the government unless they included Kerry in the BMW region, even though it was not justified by the income per head down there, and made it an unviable economic area. It annoys me that the people of South Kerry can't see that all his little extraction of extra bits and bobs (at the expense of the other 42 constituencies) is far from enough to make up for that. Our local TD's do expend energy, but it is usually in the national interest, as all TD's should be doing. A TD has no duty to lobby for his constituents, that's nowhere in the constitution. He/She has a duty to provide a fair and prosperous country for them to live in.

"As I've said, once a minister takes a portfolio, he has to be fair in how he uses that portfolio. A regular TD, however, would be negligent if he sacrificed his own community. He would be negligent, and have a short tenure on his/her seat."

I agree. However this is the nub of the problem. We don't reward good service of the nation as an electorate, and we get duly punished by the corrupt and infrastructurally bankrupt country we have to live in. Also, where do you draw the line? - A minister has to be fair, but a regular TD should put his own first. What about junior ministers? Dáil committee members etc.?

"And less of the insults about South Kerry please".

As I mentioned above, JHR cost this country a fortune. I've nothing against South Kerry, but instead of fighting the urge to accost him in the street as I would, the people who voted for him (rather than all the people of South Kerry) clearly either have a twisted sense of priorities or else are politically unaware. Neither deserves praise. I'm also aware that he gets the votes of about 30% of the electorate there, so he doesn't get the votes of the other 70%, I should have phrased it better to make it clear that it's their respect for that gombeen that I abhor rather than their place of abode. So you can pass on my apologies to your Kerry connections on that score! :oops:

As for the other - "
If that's the case, would you have any objection if the constituency system was abolished and all TDs came from Dublin?"

Of course I would. Our country is very divided between urban and rural, and 166 Jackeens would invariably struggle to govern over a million rural dwelling Irish people with whom they cannot empathise over many matters. However that's like saying would I like if all TD's were Labour, or SF, or the PD's. Of course not, because there would be no balance. However our own constituency is a good case in point. I would prefer to vote for a competent fair minded administrator from Laois than a nudge-nudge wink-wink Maurice Hickey style muppet from Ferbane, even though I've no doubt he'd be more inclined to help me cut corners or get a bit of extra grant support for any business ventures I have that may or may not get going.

Ultimately, to take the case to extremes, if you had 166 TD's with a budget for 200,000 medical cards, and they were all variants of JHRs, we'd end up with 100,000 given out fairly, and the other half like prizes in a poker tournament, where the constituents of the best wheeler dealer wins. If you had 166 TD's with the national interest at heart, aside from the fact that concentrating their efforts could lead to an extra 50,000 cards being provided, you could rest assured that the most deserving would get them. I can't see how any system is preferable to this.

I just see the enormous potential of this country going to waste because of our love of slieveenism. It really upsets me to be honest.

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Post by azoffaly »

You're looking for Utopia there Ig, and while that is the ideal, the reality is that people who promise concrete benefits for a particular community will always get votes ahead of someone who makes vague remarks about national strategies.

Think about it, if Myself and Yourself are running for Dail Eireann in Ballyhaberdashery and I promise to work to save an ailing industry in the area, whereas you speak about the overall National economic good.

Who'll get elected? I'd say I would by about 70-30%.

Take a real life example from today's news. The ghowls that murdered Gerry McCabe are suddenly in the national media again because Bertie has indicated that he will release them as part of the GFA, despite earlier assurances, basically because it's in the national interest to do so.

Peter Power, FF TD for Limerick is now threatening to resign his membership of the party because he knows full well that the electoral backlash in his constituency could well boot him out of the Dail at the next election. Whether he is in favour of the move or not, he has to be seen to oppose it if he wants to hold onto his seat.

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TD's

Post by The Biff »

God be with the days when our constituency returned Oliver J Flanagan to the realms of parliament for this country. Possibly the most powerful or influential TD from Laois/Offaly before the current Finance Minister.

Thank God that "title" has been passed on.

Regarding the primary responsibilities of our TD's in general, I tend to regard the "ordinary" TD's role as being rightly constituency-focussed, while the "Cabinet" members (including Junior Ministers) must be more Nation-focussed. Then when the likes of JHR tries to throw his weight around, it is up to a good Government to keep him check and not lose sight of the overall National interest.

Is that view too-Utopian? Maybe, but it's still my view.

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Post by turk »

good stuff Biff!

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Post by Bord na Mona man »

So we're all agreed.
It's up to government (i.e. cabinet and junior ministers) to deal with the nationwide issues and act in the "National Interest".
It's up to TDs to represent their constituency, highlight local problems/shortfalls and help ensure that the area they represent gets the correctly sized slice of the cake.
Sure that's what we have now, and we're a grand little country.
That's why I think a certain amount of blame must lie with our local representatives as to why Leix and Offaly have been battling it out for the title of poorest county in Ireland (lowest average earnings per capita).

To be fair, I think in Cowen, Enright and Parlon we are currently better served than in the past.
It'll take a while for any real prosperity to come to the midlands though.

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Our wee county

Post by The Biff »

Not trying to be disparaging, but I think Offaly has often suffered because it is practically on the "road to nowhere". By this I mean that only two National Primary Routes pass through the county; each does so for only a few miles, and with no disrespect to Horsleap or Moneygall, you'd hardly know you were in Offaly on those journeys.

This has lead many to feel the County Offaly is effectively "bypassed" by our major routes. Unless your destination is Offaly, you are unlikely to need to pass through it. I suspect that many potential Investors would not look favourably on locating here as it is thus preceived as "unfashionable".

Maybe Brian Cowen's prominence will help to dispel this perception. In this regard, should objections be raised to many media commentators often referring to him as "Biffo Cowen"? I have little problem with the term BIFFO; indeed I almost regard it as a badge of honour that no other county has such an anagram coined in its honour. I wonder how Brian feels when he sees it over and over again. Is it an old joke now? Does this frequent use perpetuate a negative perception of Offaly and it's inhabitants? Would we be better off keeping quiet and let it just blow-over, rather than highlighting it and drawing more attention to it? Do I expect answers to be posted here or are these just rhetorical questions? Will I ever stop asking more questions, rhetorical or not? ......... :?:

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Post by Lone Shark »

(I was a bit slow off the mark today, so I'm kind of replying to a lot of points together. Bear with me if it seems confusing!)

I don’t see my ideal as a Utopia at all, merely the way most developed nations outside of ourselves operate. We are the only country that I know of where matters of a strictly local importance get raised in the national chambers. That we get parodied for this in the corridors of Brussels and Strasbourg is regularly mentioned, particularly in the English Sunday (and I would imagine weekly) papers. When you look at leaders questions on BBC, and you get questions regarding the national stance on the war in Iraq, questions on the North, questions on the national budget, and rarely if ever do you get questions on single constituency issues. In Ireland the opposition uses its’ hour a week to ask about holes in the road in Roscommon, the Youghal bypass and the poor state of the national school in Scotstown. (All examples taken from the last couple of weeks) These are all valid issues, but are surely best addressed in another forum. At the end of the day the minister responsible is just going to say that he is aware of the situation, and as with other cases the appropriate plans are in place to deal with it – or something to that effect. All too often the questions are only raised so that the TD can go back to his constituents and claim that he/she is doing something, when in actual fact everyone knows that it’s a waste of time.

You use the national strategy vs ailing local industry example as a situation where only one guy can win on the doorsteps. I agree that people will vote in favour of the guy who says he’s going to fight tooth and nail for the local concern, and it’s very well meant. However who is actually going to achieve something – the guy who has no actual plan, but just wants to lobby furiously and appear on picket lines, and in general just make a nuisance of himself, or the guy who has a national strategy which will improve the conditions for making more industry viable on a national scale? I understand his plan, whatever it is, may not work, but again, at least the aim is to do something constructive rather than rob Peter to pay Paul (in the national sense).

As for the Garda McCabe example, I would regard that of another case of Fianna Fáil’s tendency to try and be government and opposition at the same time. I would commend Power if he resigns from the party over an issue where he disagrees, but I’ll save my praise until it actually happens. Michael Smith opposed the government line on the Hanly report when at home after voting in favour in the Dáil, but for all this will still happily use Fianna Fáil coffers to finance his election campaign in 2007. To revert to being a bookie, I would price it that in two years this will be less of an issue again, and I would happily lay 10/1 that Power runs in 2007 as an independent. Unless he has an actual conviction on the issue rather than a will to save his own hide, he’ll be happy to be seen to have supported the local cause without actually having to do anything decisive.



As for why Offaly has suffered, I do honestly think that because of the county's longstanding dependence on Bord na Mona and ESB, it has been practical and manually skilled work that has put bread on the table for families down the years. I don't think we have the same deep-seated respect for educational achievement that exists in other areas which were ravaged by unemployment and emigration more than we were in the 50's etc. Obviously since the readers here are all by default web literate, this isn't really the audience I'm referring to, but I would contend that a lot less of our classmates went on to third level than is the norm. As for being unfashionable, there is probably a grain of truth in that. However I'd say the absence of a steady stream of graduates is more to do with it.

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