Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

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bazza
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Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by bazza »

This is going to sound crazy after Tullamore's great win in the hurling but no team other than Clara, Rhode or the Blues has won the Football Championhsip since 2001. I was just thinking that I couldn't see another team other than the 3 afforementioned clubs winning a title within the next ten years. The 3 have dominated underage and one would have to worry for other clubs prospects.

On the other hand the Senior Hurling seems to be wide open as Birr age. Anyone of Coolderry, Birr, Clareen, Rynaghs, Tullamore, K/K or Kinnitty could win Championships in years to come.

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The Magpie
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by The Magpie »

I think this is a fair point. In the middle-to-late 90s and early noughties, although Edenderry won 4 championships, they had fairly stiff competition from a number of clubs along the way.

During this 7 year period, Edenderry, Shannonbridge, Tullamore and Rhode won championships while Clara and particularly Ferbane could consider themselves unlucky not to have done so too - that would've been 6 different teams in 7 years and probably a fair reflection of how closely matched these teams were.

Although it doesn't logically follow, it turns out that this also represents the period, in modern-day football, in which Offaly were at their most competitive, winning a Leinster Championship in 1997, a National League title in 1998 and beating the reigning All-Ireland Champions Meath in 2000.

Unfortunately, since then both Ferbane and Edenderry have faded, while inevitably, a great bunch of Shannonbridge players, drawn from a small community, got older. To add to this, no other teams have really emerged. Shamrocks and Gracefield have improved, but not by enough. Shamrocks probably should've won a Championship in this decade, but didn't. After that, you couldn't say anyone else was close.

And it doesn't look like changing anytime soon - unless of course somebody comes in under the radar, like Tullamore did in the hurling this year. But these things happen very rarely.

There have been several threads on this site about how club football could be made more competitive in Offaly by considering certain amalgamations. Paschal Kelleghan expressed a simliar opinion in an interview before the County Final. It might seem like radical thinking, but some action along these lines is probably required to redress the balance of power in Offaly club football.
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Lone Shark
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by Lone Shark »

I don't know that I'd necessarily agree. Of course there will always be clubs who are stronger at any given time, but equally, you never know when the fall will happen. To take Ferbane as an example, and look at the snapshot in 1997 - had just lost a county final in contentious circumstances, the second string had won the intermediate only the year before, and there had been three minor championships won at the start of the decade. Now of course there were warning signs, but nobody would have expected the decline that was to follow to the state we are now, where the green shoots of recovery are only beginning to be seen along the various stages.

Equally, I've always said that the team who wins an underage championship is often the one who has the best "weakest five". What I mean by that is that most of the teams out there have one or two county standard minors, most have a few more capable footballers, but the team who wins the championship is the one who doesn't have any weak links, whose worst starting players are still pretty useful. However that's not always the best indicator in terms of future progression - the best four or five are the lads who are most likely to make an impact in senior football in the years to come. Now of course a good senior footballer is not always the best footballer in the club at minor level, but they usually were fairly handy.

Let's not forget that this time last year, Gracefield probably came closer to beating Rhode than any other club in a meaningful game - and off the top of my head I don't know if they've ever won a minor A or an under 21, they certainly haven't since I've been watching football. They fell apart this year, but if they got back up to speed they wouldn't be far off the grade. I'm not saying it'll have to be Gracefield, but there are a lot of clubs out there for whom three or four players, in the right positions, would make a lot of difference. The important thing is that those clubs keep pushing up, rather than waiting for the big names to come back down to meet them.

Incidentally, I'd argue that clubs like Gracefield and Shamrocks are no farther away from winning a senior football championship than Clareen, K/K and Kinnitty are in hurling. I'd venture so far as to say that Rynaghs are so far off the pace in hurling that they're no better off than Ballycumber, Ferbane or Walsh Island. I don't think that the picture there is a whole lot better.

As for the amalgamated clubs, I think people are peddling this answer because they feel the need to have an answer of some sort. Parish amalgamations have been tried and failed in most of the parishes out there, and they will only work when there's real will to do it from inside. There's no point someone like Paschal Kelleghan (who I notice is not advocating that Clonmore and Brigids become part of Rhode) telling Daingean, Raheen or Ballycumber parishes to join up. If the clubs involved want to do it, then by all means it should be looked at - but I very much doubt that they will. In order for this to work, you would have to go the whole hog and do it the Kerry way - that every player has access to senior championship football in some form or another. In order to do that, you could only have eight proper clubs playing senior, along with four divisions. Are we really thinking that this would be the way to go?
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Silken Thomas
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by Silken Thomas »

The Magpie wrote:I think this is a fair point. In the middle-to-late 90s and early noughties, although Edenderry won 4 championships, they had fairly stiff competition from a number of clubs along the way.

During this 7 year period, Edenderry, Shannonbridge, Tullamore and Rhode won championships while Clara and particularly Ferbane could consider themselves unlucky not to have done so too - that would've been 6 different teams in 7 years and probably a fair reflection of how closely matched these teams were.

Although it doesn't logically follow, it turns out that this also represents the period, in modern-day football, in which Offaly were at their most competitive, winning a Leinster Championship in 1997, a National League title in 1998 and beating the reigning All-Ireland Champions Meath in 2000.

Unfortunately, since then both Ferbane and Edenderry have faded, while inevitably, a great bunch of Shannonbridge players, drawn from a small community, got older. To add to this, no other teams have really emerged. Shamrocks and Gracefield have improved, but not by enough. Shamrocks probably should've won a Championship in this decade, but didn't. After that, you couldn't say anyone else was close.

And it doesn't look like changing anytime soon - unless of course somebody comes in under the radar, like Tullamore did in the hurling this year. But these things happen very rarely.

There have been several threads on this site about how club football could be made more competitive in Offaly by considering certain amalgamations. Paschal Kelleghan expressed a simliar opinion in an interview before the County Final. It might seem like radical thinking, but some action along these lines is probably required to redress the balance of power in Offaly club football.
It's a very interesting topic and one I would like to elaborate on further in the future...
However I believe Offaly's competiveness at the time was definitly enhanced by the knockout championship.
I would push for a 'weighted' league and knockout championship for one year at least.
Variety being the spice of life... :D
Last edited by Silken Thomas on Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thecornerback
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by thecornerback »

Lone Shark wrote:Incidentally, I'd argue that clubs like Gracefield and Shamrocks are no farther away from winning a senior football championship than Clareen, K/K and Kinnitty are in hurling. I'd venture so far as to say that Rynaghs are so far off the pace in hurling that they're no better off than Ballycumber, Ferbane or Walsh Island. I don't think that the picture there is a whole lot better.
Lone Shark, you seem to have a grudge of some sort against Rynagh's hurlers now - On what evidence have you Rynagh's any more off the pace than Clareen, K/K and Kinnitty??
Were Rynagh's not 10 points up on eventual county champions Tullamore only a month ago? A game that I'm sure any Tullamore player, selector or follower will admit they were very fortunate to come out of with a win?? How on this form can you say they are "so far off the pace"?? Even Kevin Martin admitted in an interview after the county final that he sees Rynagh's as the coming team in the county!!

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Lone Shark
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by Lone Shark »

thecornerback wrote:
Lone Shark wrote:Incidentally, I'd argue that clubs like Gracefield and Shamrocks are no farther away from winning a senior football championship than Clareen, K/K and Kinnitty are in hurling. I'd venture so far as to say that Rynaghs are so far off the pace in hurling that they're no better off than Ballycumber, Ferbane or Walsh Island. I don't think that the picture there is a whole lot better.
Lone Shark, you seem to have a grudge of some sort against Rynagh's hurlers now - On what evidence have you Rynagh's any more off the pace than Clareen, K/K and Kinnitty??
Were Rynagh's not 10 points up on eventual county champions Tullamore only a month ago? A game that I'm sure any Tullamore player, selector or follower will admit they were very fortunate to come out of with a win?? How on this form can you say they are "so far off the pace"?? Even Kevin Martin admitted in an interview after the county final that he sees Rynagh's as the coming team in the county!!
Oh Lord. Anyway, taking it at face value....

Ryanghs have been pitched as the coming team for some time, and the depth they have in the club is unsurpassed. They were competitive at intermediate this year and were very decent at junior into the bargain. They've had good underage teams for years, but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to be passing up along the line - as per my comments above, I think it's more down to their depth that their doing well rather than any outstanding main men. It's killing the county to be honest, because traditionally Rynaghs always used to supply the "hardier" men on the county team. Rynaghs are not going well now, and as a result the county seems to lack leaders, obvious candidates to fill the spinal and "enforcing" roles.

On the face of it, this year's results weren't that bad, but neither were they anything special. However when you factor in the results from the last few years, they just don't seem to be getting any better. And since they've had good young players for the last decade or so, why are they coming now any more than they used to be? I can't remember the last time they beat any of the top five or six clubs in the county in a meaningful championship match, it must be 2005 or 2006 at the most recent.

Kinnitty and K/K made a county final in each of the last two seasons, while I'd have a lot more faith in Clareen's ability to keep all hands on deck and rowing together, so to speak.

It's not as if a Rynaghs championship win next year would be any more of a surprise than Tullamore's this year, but it has come to a stage now that it would be almost as much of a one - to me anyway, for the little that's worth.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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bazza
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by bazza »

Interestingly I wasn't intending to bring up a discussion on the Parish Rule but the minute I submitted the message I knew what was coming. Maybe this is very cyncial but I've always looked upon big amalgamtions and divisional teams as gimmicks to win more championships. It all looks very good on paper, players and supporters talking about the benefits for county but I find it hard to buy it. I mean does a big town like Edenderry or a proud club like Rhode need to join up with Ballyfore or Croghan/Clonmore, repsectively. I just get the hint that people wouldn't mind seeing the Casey's come into Rhode as the likes of Kellghans and Malone age with no serious talent coming through (A certain Anton being the exception). Or that the Edenderry crowd worry about the fact that their heroic minor team of 2007 has seen their 2 best players lost to Ballyfore (Brady and Dunne) as their team ages and others drop away. For that barren land out in East Offaly, the Daingean and Killeigh parishes, maybe clubs there should think about it. When was the last time a proper county player came out of these areas?

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Offaly2010
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by Offaly2010 »

I don't think Rhode will be as dominent in the Offaly Senior Football Championship in the coming years as they have been in recent years. After Clara's win this year I think it will give Gracefield and Shamrocks a lot of confidence as it shows Rhode can be beaten.

I know Gracefield had a terrible year but Clara only beat them by a goal in the group stage this year,and now they are county champion. With Niall Smith back now I think they can put this year behind them and challenge for the Championship next year.

This year the Championship was only really between Rhode and Clara from the start,but next year I think it will be much more competitive with Clara,Rhode,Gracefield and Shamrocks all in with a chance.

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Lone Shark
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Re: Offaly Senior Football Championhsip

Post by Lone Shark »

Certainly Gracefield have the talent, and Shamrocks too would have plenty of ability in their ranks, but I don't think it's an issue for these clubs to improve themselves as it is to get the self belief required to push them over the edge. Shamrocks beat Rhode only two years ago and drew with them this year, and still everything went horribly wrong for them in this year's semi-final - surely they shouldn't need to be shown that Rhode can be beaten?

A full strength Tullamore would fall into that category too, while there would be a few more clubs with an eye on improving themselves and pushing things on another bit.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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