Offaly Hurling Management A Joke

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
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The Magpie
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Post by The Magpie »

POTH, you clearly make an enormous contribution to this site. I do like reading your previews and interesting posts. It's quite clear that you enjoy writing and that you're good at it. If other members of this forum are not quite as commanding in their use of English, I don't think you need to highlight it.

I've previously read previews written by both yourself and LS (who is also a very good author) that I may have had issue with, whether in terms of the grammar or choice of vocabulary, but I haven't seen the need to point it out. That's surely not the purpose of this forum. Is it?
The Dog chases the Car....the Car stops....the Dog can't Drive!

Plain of the Herbs
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Post by Plain of the Herbs »

My apologies to all. I've deleted that now.

Slasher
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Post by Slasher »

Offalys Future wrote:
It’s clear you don’t enjoy this hurling lark.

I suggest you buy a rod and reel and take yourself off fishing on Sunday. Or do your homework. Your English is terrible.

I’ve every confidence in Offaly’s future. As for Offalys Future (sic), he needs to chill out.
i dont know how you could say that i dont enjoy hurling from my previous comments, and i will be present as ever on Sunday.

You say that you have every confidence in Offalys future but yet you wont tell us why you think this, instead you go and make smart remarks about me.
I am on this forum to talk hurling and to tell it the way it is. if you have something to say hurling wise then say it.


was talking about my experience of him, and I thought he was tactically astute. Also, county players shouldnt have to go to training to take frees. Im sure they can other time for thsi. Five goalkeeping drills? Again a lot of this stuff should be done on your own. The man is preparing an intercounty team, not a team of clowns. You cant be spoon-feeding lads at this level
Are you kidding me, please tell me that you you are just trying to rise me?
that is why Offay hurling is the way it is, because people like you think that all you have to do is go training run laps, have pride in the jersey and win. that day is gone.
gaa has become more advanced in so many areas and the likes of offaly are been left behind.
this might or might not interest you but heres 2 websites that most counties in Ireland have for their players
http://www.sporttracker.ie
http://www.elitesportsanalysis.com/
while the likes of Offaly still dont even do drills for the different positions on the field, Cork, tipperary, kerry, armagh, tyrone, clare, waterford etc have gone to this level.
i'm interested to know what type of training should a goalkeeper be doing so?
In terms of free taking, anybody can go down to their local hurling field and put balls over the bar for sport with no1 watching.
Free taking is about taking the player out of his comfort zone, putting him under pressure and seeing how he responds.
But like i have said its things like this that arent been worked at.
you watch Offalys free takers the weekend and see how many frees they miss.

we had before naturally talented players in the county but we dont have that anymore. Our players need to work on their skills and be perfecting them at every opportunity they get.
Instead at senior, minor, u-16, u-14, u-12 county level they dont get this and the majority of the training they do is irrelevant.
No im not here to rise anyone. I was merely suggesting that maybe not MacIntyre is as much to blame as a lot of people think. You seem to know more about the type of training being done so Im not going to doubt you on it. If there are stones left unturned as you say then The manager is to blame.

However I dont think team training is the time to practise free-taking. Its an extra responsibility and so should be nurtured outside the general training. Goalkeeping similarly. Jim Troy or someone of that calibre should be called in on a separate basis to help out with the goalkeepers particularly when Ray Murray was there. Have you attended the trainings and seen the set-up?

Offalys Future
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Post by Offalys Future »

what i am trying to get across is that its not just the management that is the problem, its the whole seup, county board, sponsors, clubs, players etc.
but with all the problems the management have these players for 3 sessions a week for 6 months.
If you at underage there is no proper coaching taking place at county level, never mind clubs.

However I dont think team training is the time to practise free-taking. Its an extra responsibility and so should be nurtured outside the general training. Goalkeeping similarly. Jim Troy or someone of that calibre should be called in on a separate basis to help out with the goalkeepers particularly when Ray Murray was there. Have you attended the trainings and seen the set-up?
yes i have attended training seesions and i cant believe the setup.
in terms of freetaking and goalkeeping.
i dont agree with your statement, just watch both the games on the weekend, i will show you next monday how many frees were taken and scored. for the likes of offaly this is a huge area that they need to work on. if we get 12 frees against kilkenny or laois we need to get 12 points.
each training session for munster and ireland ronan o gara practices kicking. Joe bergin has a skill (free taking) he needs to practice this and perfect his technique so that he doesnt miss a free.
what is the point in goalkeepers doing the training of out field players - a compete waste of time.
they need to be doing specific training, that will benefit them in a game.

You might say that all this is too technical, but i work in sports analysis and it isnt very technical at all. Offaly spend 6 hours a week training, you have to make use of that 6 hours in perfecting all of your skills, and not wasting time doing training that does not benefit the player or the team.

You start al of this at u-14,u-16, and then minor, when they come to senior level then they all have the necessary skills and then a good manager can do alot more with the players.

kenster03
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Post by kenster03 »

i can see where offaly future is going with some of this but honestly i would have a fair idea of whats going on in Offaly and alot of that will never happen.
its a pity because it certainly is the way to go, but we are too far behind in Offaly for this.

And all of what he has said costs money which our county board aren't willing to spend.

kenster03
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Post by kenster03 »

You might say that all this is too technical, but i work in sports analysis and it isnt very technical at all. Offaly spend 6 hours a week training, you have to make use of that 6 hours in perfecting all of your skills, and not wasting time doing training that does not benefit the player or the team.
what area do you work , iam inteested in this but not much info in Ireland, i have seen your two sites before. can you send me a private messag if you have any info.
thanks

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Lone Shark
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Post by Lone Shark »

Offalys Future wrote:what i am trying to get across is that its not just the management that is the problem, its the whole seup, county board, sponsors, clubs, players etc.
but with all the problems the management have these players for 3 sessions a week for 6 months.
You're relatively new to the site, and it's clear to see that you are passionate and driven about Offaly hurling. However I don't think you help your arguments by this kind of "it's all wrong" kind of attitude. Just to pick the obvious example, how are the sponsors even partially responsible for the current ailments of Offaly hurling, senior or minor? We have a reasonable contract from Carroll Cuisine, a contract that Seamus Carroll has got very little from in return in comprison to most county sponsors. I can guarantee you that if he was to bring in analysts or consultants they would be very quick to point out that there is no way he gets profits returned to the level of the sponsorship he provides. A few Offaly exiles doing like I do and always trying to buy Carroll Cuisine products when I go down to Dunnes Stores or Tesco for the weekly shop hardly gives him his investment back.

Or to put it another way, if one was to buy into your belief that clubs, players, management, county boards and basically everyone involved are going about things the wrong way, then there isn't much hope at all.

In the spirit of the recent election, and the debate involved etc., how about if we were to flip this - what would you suggest? I'm not asking this to be facetious or argumentative, it's a straight question. However much like Enda Kenny wasn't allowed just say that he was going to do everything, try to stay within the realms of budgetary reality. We'd all love to see a rake of full time coaches taking schools and everything, with players looked after and every available tachnological aid being employed. However in the current fiscal reality that's just not feasible.

So what do you think?

Dingle
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Post by Dingle »

Lone Shark wrote:
Offalys Future wrote:what i am trying to get across is that its not just the management that is the problem, its the whole seup, county board, sponsors, clubs, players etc.
but with all the problems the management have these players for 3 sessions a week for 6 months.
You're relatively new to the site, and it's clear to see that you are passionate and driven about Offaly hurling. However I don't think you help your arguments by this kind of "it's all wrong" kind of attitude. Just to pick the obvious example, how are the sponsors even partially responsible for the current ailments of Offaly hurling, senior or minor? We have a reasonable contract from Carroll Cuisine, a contract that Seamus Carroll has got very little from in return in comprison to most county sponsors. I can guarantee you that if he was to bring in analysts or consultants they would be very quick to point out that there is no way he gets profits returned to the level of the sponsorship he provides. A few Offaly exiles doing like I do and always trying to buy Carroll Cuisine products when I go down to Dunnes Stores or Tesco for the weekly shop hardly gives him his investment back.

Or to put it another way, if one was to buy into your belief that clubs, players, management, county boards and basically everyone involved are going about things the wrong way, then there isn't much hope at all.

In the spirit of the recent election, and the debate involved etc., how about if we were to flip this - what would you suggest? I'm not asking this to be facetious or argumentative, it's a straight question. However much like Enda Kenny wasn't allowed just say that he was going to do everything, try to stay within the realms of budgetary reality. We'd all love to see a rake of full time coaches taking schools and everything, with players looked after and every available tachnological aid being employed. However in the current fiscal reality that's just not feasible.

So what do you think?
You and some others on here seem v touchy when various arms of Offaly GAA are criticised.
Offaly have gone from being one of top hurling counties for two decades to being the whipping boys of Liam McCarthy. They are numberous reasons which include
a weak County board who failed to put in the proper underage structures ala KK/Galway
weak underage club structures. I currently live in Cork, the hard hard work being put in down here is not being done in Offaly. The difference in underage club standards is massive. From what Ive seen, the best in Offaly wouldnt get near to making county finals down here.
a weak manager with a big mouth. Its McIntyre's job to get the player at his disposal to play to their maximum potential. When has this happened last in championship?

As someone who doesnt appreciate looking at Offaly negatively, lets hear your reasons to be OPTIMISTIC about Offaly's long term hurling future?
I'M struggling to see any?

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Lone Shark
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Post by Lone Shark »

Hold the phone here - I'm not saying for a minute that it should be positive viewpoints only. It's not that I think all elements should be beyond criticism - however on the other hand I don't think blanket criticism of everyone involved without any suggested solutions helps anyone.

I'm as frustrated as anyone that we now find ourselves so far off the pace when it comes to intercounty hurling, and football for that matter. I can completely understand that people look on at what happens in neighbouring counties with a degree of envy, but I am also cognisant of the fact that a lot of people read this site without making their presence felt, be they players, county board members or whoever, and I'm loathe to let wanton criticism with no real direction go unchecked. I certainly would shudder at the notion of Seamus Carroll or someone connected to him looking at this thread and getting criticism for signing cheques, both on a yearly basis and again dipping into his pocket for the building of the new stand.

A lot of criticism I read seems to ignore some of the following facts that I consider to be among the basics:

(1) As a county we have had a very successful history, defying our small pick and continuously punching above our weight. However nothing we've done before gives us a divine right to carry on as such again. People are talking about struggling to bridge the gap with Clare, Wexford and Limerick as a crisis - all of these counties have hurling as the main sport and double (or more) our population. I'm not saying for a minute we should lie down and die when faced with these teams, anything but, but let's be realistic.

(2) Any time I have a typical male/female row with the good lady, it can be quite frustrating because anytime I ask what can be done to bridge the gap, she repeats what went wrong in the past, and how that's the issue - so basically to end the row I need to adjust history. I can't help but see the similarity here. We let our underage structures slip in the 1990's - we know this, the players know this and above all the county board knows this. Re-iterating it doesn't help, and expecting the gap to be bridged in a year or so from a standing start is unrealistic.

(3) Not alone do we not have the populace of the bigger counties, we do not have the resources either. Our annual income is a fraction of that in Cork, so obviously a county like theirs can afford a lot more by way of full and part time trainers etc. A lot of the things that people say we should be doing costs money - I've yet to see somebody make a good case for where this money should come from.

Now I'm not saying that we should look at these obstacles and throw our hands in the air in resignation, but people pretending that these things aren't an issue is no good either. It's a bit like people typing onto Hogan stand with their team that would fix Offaly's problems, and they're always predicated on no injuries or suspensions, Dylan Hayden coming back and Stephen Browne hurling like he did five years ago. We must play the cards we have been dealt.

As for reasons for optimism, I think there are actually quite a few. We have a young panel, and unusually a few of the younger players look like being the leaders of the future - both Paul Cleary and Joe Bergin have the makings of future captains and inspirational players, while we're not going to lose too many key players over the next few years. Kilcormac/Killoughey and St. Rynagh's are both looking like
getting back to eminence, and for two clubs that have around 30% of the county's hurling pick between them, we've needed them to contribute more to senior county teams for some time.

Coolderry actually look like being rivals to Birr in the county championship as well - and that rivalry in the county championship will be of great benefit. These might be small things, but they are more than enough for me to believe that we can come back.

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Post by Offalys Future »

So what do you think?
Right, firstly i am aware that this is a forum that anybody can make comments, and like other forums some people will be just on to talk rubbish and post nonsense comments.

It would be great if this could be changed as i see that there is people that have alot of time for Offaly Gaa on this forum.

I will consider your question and will research my answer during the week and give you a response by friday.

Maybe i do come across negative, but as you are aware everything is not right at present.
These problems arent been addressed and need to be in order for Offaly GAA to make progress and go forward.

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Muck Savage
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Post by Muck Savage »

For the hurling, we don't have the pick. For Football you have a chance to build from the younger teams up. Here's what I'd recommend be done, getting people to do this could be difficult but possible. I'm not ruling out the hurling, it will have to be tackled in a different way than the football but still possible.
1) You need some of the county stars involved. They should be paid to do this over the next few years while they are still well known in the GAA world as this is what a young lad will turn up to see. I know myself when I was a young lad if I heard Matt Connor was going to be down training us I'd be down the night before. Same now a days for the young lads. The likes of Vinny Claffey, Ciaran Mac, Cathal Daly etc. would all be regarded as lads most young lads looked up to a few years ago so while they still have that "Celeb status" in the eyes of those young lads we should be trying to make hay

2) Schools - Secondary Schools and Vocational Schools. Back 15-20 years ago we had a good deal of strong teams in the Colleges and Vocational comps. From here a lot of the underage county teams got fed (take '89 minor team and how many Sarans players were on it). These lads came from different clubs but if we had paid trainers from the County board helping out here or over these teams now it would in effect gather the better lads from that region and raise their game to a higher standard. This would be better than the County trainer going to each club and while improving the normal player, wouldn't really improve the better players in the club. Fovus on the Ferbane school that takes in a large number of smaller clubs, same with Clara, Tullamore, E'derry etc. E'derry had a great run this year but it would be great to see the other schools do just as well. Then take 4 player from each school and you could have a right good minor team. Don't tell me that Meath just bread footballers around Navan, O'Rourke has done a great job there at the school. By doing this you could get a more focused bunch of players, playing at a higher level than their clubs with good trainers. This could be done in the hurling areas but the number of schools would be smaller.
Today you have too many sports at the schools to compete against like soccer and rubgy but if you had a "Celeb trainer" it might attract more lads to play the GAA games.

Nt sure what everyone else thinks on this but it's a suggestion! let's hear more and maybe we'll solve the problems here.

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Lone Shark
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Post by Lone Shark »

While I agree completely with the sentiment of all that, this brings us back to the points I raised above - all these remedies involve spending money, money we don't really have as a county.

Personally I'd like to see something along the lines of the county board employing a few people, but trying to make the gig self-financing. Create a sort of "school of excellence" gig that our own young players can use, but is also being paid for by schools/underage teams coming in from around the country. Offer training seminars, seperate courses for ball drills, body strength etc. I haven't thought through the details, but I think there is a gap in the market, and there could be a serious first mover advantage.


As for the schools, we're a bit unusual in that a lot of our pupils go to schools outside the county. Ballycumber and Tubber all go to Moate, most of Rhode and Croghan go to Rochfortbridge and a lot of Walsh Island/Gracefield etc go to Portarlington - so in one sense it's a bit harsh to judge the county by Offaly schools only. Saran's/Gallen generally only have about 25 lads in any given year any more, so it's a bit harsh to expect continued miracles from there - that class of 1989/1990 was a bit of a freak vintage in fairness. Five lads on the county minor team, with two more on the bench. Add in the pre-eminence of rugby in there now and it becomes very difficult.

That said, it's amazing how many lads you talk to who reckon that the rugby training has been great for them. Several of the younger generation in Ferbane and surrounds reckon that in terms of bringing you along physically, the rugby worked wonders. I know that's a bit of an aside, but there you go.

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Post by Kevin »

Welcome Dingle. I think we are all a little frustrated with what has been happening with our teams. If you have a chance to look back to other threads I think your opinion will change a bit regarding people being touchy as regards to criticism. Sure we're all Offaly fans, but nobody on here seems blind to what is happening.

Looking back you will see people calling for manager's heads and accusing the county board of incompetence in certain instances all in a sincere effort to move forward.

Debate is hardly shouted down here.

Offaly's Future, I look forward to your coming plan as I'm sure it will be given plenty of careful thought.

Offalys Future
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Post by Offalys Future »

nearly done, will just need a couple more days to finish off.

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Post by Offalys Future »

all done lads, with the week thats in it i dont want to be posting up what i have wrote, as all focus and discussions should be on the games Sunday, send me a private message if anyone wants to receive via email

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