Offaly Hurling Management A Joke

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Offalys Future
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Offaly Hurling Management A Joke

Post by Offalys Future » Mon May 14, 2007 3:13 pm

I have bit my tongue for long enough on this issue so here it goes.

John McIntyre isnt the first cousin of a intercounty trainer and if that hasn’t become clear already it will in the next four weeks.

This is his third year in charge of the senior team. How he has been given three years is quiet unbelievable.

Heres The Facts
His third year of a three year “rebuilding and development process” he drops 12 players from his panel and gets 2 new selectors.

I have nothing personal against John McIntyre, I just believe that his 3 years of Offaly manager has been a complete shambles.
He is a media man, every week without fail he is present on the national newspapers, GAA websites etc, quoted so many times about “rebuilding” and “bringing Offaly hurling back to where it should be”.

The last two weeks were no different when he pleaded with Nicky Brennan to allow Offaly into Div 1 next year. I am a life time supporter of Offaly and under no circumstances should we be in Div 1 next year.
The time for arguing that was by our county board back when that decision was been discussed. But they didn’t.
McIntyre can say what he wants but his first big test of 2007 came against Limerick and he failed. Instead of taking this on the chin, he whinged that Offaly should be in Div 1. How can he possibly say this after a poor Limerick team absolutely hammered Offaly in Nenagh. He points the book at other people rather than himself.

And people please don’t be fooled by the results against Clare and Waterford. Waaterford had played another game and had 3 training sessions within 6 days before they played Offaly. Clare were still doing their hard training and with all that has happened down there they had no interest whatsoever in the league.
Championship is everything.


Panel Decisions
Last year before the Wexford game I spoke with an experienced team member regarding McIntyre, the question I put to him was this – Has he any faith with the sideline? His answer was NO.

This year is no different, take a look at the panel.

In the last game that Offaly played in 2006 championship qualifier against Clare, Brian Mullins was dropped, he was deemed not good enough to play and Shane O’Connor took his place. Therefore the last game of last years Shane o’Connor was regarded as Offalys no.1 Goalkeeper by McIntyre an his management team.
This year when the panel was picked Shane O’Connor was not invited in and rather Coolderrys Ray Murray was after he played well in a few challenge games.
Ray Murray has never even played in goals in the Offaly Senior Hurling Championship and here he is deemed better that Shan o’ Connor. This gets even more comical, Intercounty management now is all about man management, do you think Paddy Kirwan has that? No. When Brian Mullins didn’t turn up for a practice game he was dropped from the panel. Therefore Ray Murray was now the number 1 keeper for Offaly, even though he had never played in goals for his club at senior championship level. The management then realised the mistake they had made and asked Shane O’Connor back in, he duly obliged and has hurled in goals ever since.
Now – two weeks before the first round of the championship and with no training done Brian Mullins is invited back in. He has done very little training even with Birr and believe it or not but Mullins may be in goal for the Laois game but he will definitely be in goal for the Kilkenny game if Offaly beat Laois.
Mullins was invited back in after his performance against Kinnity last weekend, unless I was at a different game, he didn’t hurl well, his puck outs were as bad as ever, in the second half a high ball game in and he dropped it, his goalie hurl was rattling, his attitude hasn’t changed at all and he shouldn’t be invited back in at this stage.

The management took the bold move of dropping 12 of the panel. We don’t have a huge pick in Offaly and we are limited with the numbers we have. The best hurlers must play with the county. Here are just a few names,
Brian Mullins, Dylan Hayden, Stephen Browne, Michael Cordial, Colm Cassidy, Sean Ryan, Eamonn Lee are all god enough to be part of the county panel. But not by bringing some of the above in two weeks before championship. People will say that Hayden, Browne Mullins, Cordial etc haven’t the right attitude, so instead of trying to change this, the management get rid of them and bring in hurlers that while they try their best and I admire them for that they just aren’t good enough for Inter County Level.


McIntyre has lost the respect of the dressing room.
Morale is as low as ever and half the players don’t even talk to each other. This year
is going to be the worst ever for Offaly Hurling.
In any other county he would have been sacked after the Limerick game, but then again, this is Offaly we are talking about.

One thing I ask you, I am going to setup a topic called Offaly starting 15 for the second game in this years championship, whether that will be against Kilkenny or in the qualifiers that remains to be seen, what I want is people to choose their starting 15 in the proper positions. I will give €20 to each person that gets less than 5 player/positions wrong. I am not talking about the team announced; I am talking about at the throw in the exact positions of the players.

Speaking with that same player that I spoke to a year ago, two weeks before championship and he doesn’t know if he will be playing or not, if he is playing he could be doing so in any of 3 positions. He has been training since before xmas for this and still has been given no indication by the management. An absolute joke.

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Post by turk » Mon May 14, 2007 3:38 pm

It's certainly an interesting thread!

I'll play my cards - I thought he didn't get a good crack of it in 97, so i thought the reappointment was fair enough. However i don't see that progress was made in the first two years following taking over from Mike Mac - you have to draw the conclusions on results.

The performance v Wexford last year was an all time low for me and i'm still sickened over it.

Citing the list of players that have been left off is contentious. If you're gonna leave talented players out for lack of commitment is one thing but you've dug your own hole if the players you're left with don't get you the results.

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Post by green&white » Tue May 15, 2007 4:31 pm

I have 2agree.. mcintyre is a joke!! He should be ran out of the county.. and whats worse is he's pickin up a nice little earner from us as well!!!
He's offered his resignation a couple of times over the last three years and our disgrace of a county board wouldn't accept it.. for the simple reason it would cause too much effort from them to look for a replacement!
When he arrived back 3yrs ago we had a team that should have won a Leinster Final and were very unlucky to be relegated to division2. Under his guidance we sleepwalked our way through the league (while being disgraced by Calow) and subsequently endured the largest defeat we ever suffered at the hands of the cats.
For his failings as a manger we then brought in 2physical trainers from munster rugby.. these guys were the reason we enjoyed any success in the league in the past 2yrs.. come c'ship when they're input to tainin has diminished due to obvious reasons Offaly have trailed behind all in our wake.. from talking to the players they have no faith in Mac and cant stand him.. his long, boring and self involved speeches and numerous rants in the paper have them just shutting off completely to what he says!
he got rid off some of our best players, and while yes they needed to be kicked in the ass we are not strong enough to just turn our backs on them!
a good manager would do what he's supposed to do.... manage!!!
to a certain extent the players have to except responsibility on the field, but at the same time the game has evolved and the days guts and determination will only get you so far (as a fact thats the only reason we have won any matches over the last couple of yrs when our players have wired into opposite teams). . our boys are subject to no game plan, which will ensure that performances are one-off and not regular occurences.. I do recall management been qouted in the paper last yr ( Daithi Regan) as sayin that once the palyers cross the white line its not their fault.... Hardly inspiring when putting alll balme on the players...
oh it makes me sick to be writing this.. but we have to get rid of mcintrye and the sooner the better!
I spoke 2ollie daly last yr and he said a successful yr for the hurlers in 06 was to ensure we weren't relegated.. what a way to measure success! and lastly to sum it all up, of last yrs team they were asked by the captain how many wanted mac back and only 2were in favour out of 28... enough said!

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Post by Lone Shark » Tue May 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Has the makings of an emotional debate this one.

For what it's worth, I'll put my cards on the table at the start - I've met John McIntyre a few times, and I can't help but like the man - he's an intelligent man who comes across very well, and he does appear to have a very good and insightful reading of the game.

Having said that, we are now two and a half years into his "reign" and we find ourselves in division 2 and some very poor campaigns in the championship over the past summers, so the bare facts do not look good. I'd be slow to blame him for 2005 - he took over a team that was in division two, and I'd be of the opinion that if Brian Cody or John Allen was in charge we still would have got hockeyed by Kilkenny that day. McIntyre had no chance to suss out his team in the spring. It's not his fault that Joe Brady looked good banging in goals all round him against Roscommon and Kerry. After another poor first half against Waterford we began to sort ourselves out a little bit, and could very easily have beaten Clare in Portlaoise.

I genuinely believed we had turned the corner in the Spring of 2006. You can run down the league games this year by all means, but there was nothing wrong with the win over Waterford or draw with Cork in Birr last spring. Even the game in Tipperary may have showed some cracks in the system but we were far from humiliated.

The loss in Wexford was a bad day, but again the backs hurled well and the forwards were just dominated. Plenty of switches were tried, it just didn't happen. Now from there on, yes, it all went horribly wrong. Limerick were mentally in bits going into that game in Tullamore, our managers should have sent the team out smelling blood and looking to put Limerick away. Instead we were the team that hurled with fear. Clare was an all time low. The team was in tatters, management was disinterested and arguably that was worse than the game against Kilkenny the previous year.

My gut feeling was that he would walk after that, but the county board seemed happy to keep him on, so that was fair enough.

As regards where we are now, I've no doubt that his media friendly attitude is keeping him from getting the grilling that the team's performances warrant. In saying that, is it really a failure that the tenth best team in Ireland came tenth in the league?

I also don't like to see people blaming him for his comments about the league relegation controversy. If he was asked about if he knew about the structure, what was he supposed to say? "No, our delegate was out taking a leak at the time when the proposals were on the table" Instead he came up with a ridiculously contrived reason why he didn't say anything, about it undermining confidence. Perhaps the lesser of two evils.


To take a slightly sideways look at this for a moment - as some people may know, I'm currently entwined with a Roscommon woman, and as such I've been in several pub discussions where the state of Roscommon football is the topic at hand. Roscommon supporters have always highly amused me because they have a wonderfully inflated view of where they stand in the overall pecking order, and an incredible ability to maintain completely incongruous positions. They bemoan the drinking culture in their panel and say it has to be stamped out, yet they give out every time a young forward kicks a wide and look for Frankie Dolan to comeback. I can't help but see the comparison with our hurlers.

Before I start with this, be clear it's not that I think our hurlers are drinking every night or anything like it - we've all seen the idle chatter on Hogan Stand, but I've no interest in anything like that - I'm basing this entirely on hurling. Offaly supporters, myself included, are heartbroken when we see our teams give in without a fight, to put anything less than 100% into a game. Several players were guilty of this over the past few years, and these are largely speaking the players that are not on the panel right now. I'm not going to name names, but when Offaly go ten points down we all know which are the players that drop their heads and don't want to know.

As far as I'm concerned these players had to go, so to bemoan management when the best of what's left is not good enough or they have a bad day like happened in Nenagh is not really helpful.

Of course the management is not blameless. The lack of confidence in the team is very deep seated, and I'm not sure what steps have been taken to address this. At times there has not been a lack of an overall plan, and that lack of vision could explain the lack of faith among some of the players, or the mess that was the goalkeeping situation. However to say that a man that has a serious track record in club hurling management is not the first cousin of a county manager is a bit of an exaggeration I think.

Likewise, of course we'd prefer if managers were able to change the lifestyles and attitudes of players, but as a small county we have an extra difficulty in that these players are well aware that if they don't keep in line, they're still the best we have. Lads acting the maggot in Kilkenny or Cork know that the queue behind them is long and so that disciplines players by themselves. Once again you can see why it's an issue in Roscommon, since they suffer from the same thing. It's all very well to say you want a stronger manager, but any strong manager invariably has a few casualties on the way. Ask yourself are players like Micháel Webster and Ollie Canning good enough to play for their county, or indeed if Charlie Carter or Denis Byrne were when Cody pushed them aside?

I'm not saying McIntyre has been successful - he hasn't, that much is obvious. I am saying that doing better would not be that simple. Dylan Hayden does not want to play intercounty hurling this year. People saying he should be playing don't get it - if a year off is what he needs to get his appetite back, then fair enough. Likewise comments like how some of the "intransigents" just need a kick in the ass is way too simplistic. There are people who don't want to put in the necessary sacrifices, and nothing anyone can say will turn that around.

One final note - it doesn't serve the county well (in either code) to have a reputation as a managerial graveyard. The necessity to persist with McIntyre is possibly a degree of penance for earlier sins as well.

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Post by Bogman » Tue May 15, 2007 10:38 pm

A few wins would bring McIntyre up in everyone's estimation, including the players.

I'm no hurling expert but I do go to a lot of Offaly matches and Offaly club matches. In my humble opinion McIntyre did exactly the right thing in clearing out the squad in the winter.

I've great time for some of the lads that were dropped but it wasn't doing anybody any good having the same underachieving squad together hurling in a Depressed Comfort Zone (and I know that phrase is a contradiction but this squad was living there).

You can see what they're trying to do with some of the new lads - they've picked players who can catch the ball even if they are a bit raw - the ability to win your own possession is a necessity in modern day hurling and all the blocking & hooking in the world won't make up for the lack of the ball in the first place.

Some of those players have repaid the management for their faith in them - Conor Hernon, David Kenny, Cathal Horan, Michael Verney, Eddie Bevans, Derek Molloy.

It's my impression that Aidan Fogarty and Paddy Kirwan are two strong characters so McIntyre has a good team around him at the moment.

From this supporter's point of view McIntyre seems to make the right moves on the field, substituting players when there's a need and finding the best positions for them - Barry Teehan and Brendan Murphy are good examples.

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Post by Offalys Future » Thu May 24, 2007 1:52 am

i only just saw this from the topic i setup.

"However to say that a man that has a serious track record in club hurling management is not the first cousin of a county manager is a bit of an exaggeration I think. "


that is what i am exactly saying. pad joe whelehan is the most successful club hurling training in the country, now you can say whatever but he has it all on his cv, and he is not i repeat he is not the first cousin of a county manager. he was laughed out of a interview from galway a few years back and thrown out of Limerick.

Club and county are completely different.mcintyre is not an intercounty manager and people will see the light very soon.

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Post by Lone Shark » Thu May 24, 2007 2:25 am

Offalys Future wrote:i only just saw this from the topic i setup.

"However to say that a man that has a serious track record in club hurling management is not the first cousin of a county manager is a bit of an exaggeration I think. "


that is what i am exactly saying. pad joe whelehan is the most successful club hurling training in the country, now you can say whatever but he has it all on his cv, and he is not i repeat he is not the first cousin of a county manager. he was laughed out of a interview from galway a few years back and thrown out of Limerick.

Club and county are completely different.mcintyre is not an intercounty manager and people will see the light very soon.
But where are you to get an intercounty manager if not through the club structure? All you can do is give them a chance at the higher level and see how they do.

Once more with feeling, I'm not trying to argue that McIntyre has done well. Results don't lie, and they haven't been good. However in saying that we don't have a fantastic panel, and his act that is most debated - the clearout - is something I agreed with.

I agree that club and county are two different games, however your phrasing appeared to be dismissing the man entirely, whereas I certainly wouldn't rule out that he will have a good spell in charge of a county someday, even if it's not looking likely that that county will be Offaly.

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Debate

Post by The Biff » Thu May 24, 2007 9:43 am

I read in yesterdays Examiner that a complete thread on the "official" Kildare GAA Discussion Board had to be deleted recently after their loss to Meath, because of the vitriol of some of the postings.

I dont think we would ever stoop to such depths. We have fans as loyal and enthusiastic as any, and views like those posted above are well-spoken. No matter how bad our Faithful teams ever perform, let us not forget that they are young men (and women) that are just trying to play a game, with Management Teams that are trying to help them play it well. They may not be the best experts around, but can you ever really question the honesty of their efforts?

Lets make sure we dont ever need to censor our own Discussion Board of any genuine GAA fans comments.

p.s. Lone Shark, what in the namajayzus are you doing posting on this DB at 1:25 in the morning? Dont tell me you stayed up to watch the Ecuador soccer match? Ya wally!

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Post by Slasher » Thu May 24, 2007 11:28 am

I keep an eye on this forum without ever posting but have to have a say here. While I agree that Offaly's results have been poor of late, I wouldnt be too quick to blame McIntrye. Having hurled under him I can assure you that he is a very shrewd operator who leaves no stone unturned in the preparation of his team.

I think the problem is with the players. With the exception of a few, they are inter-county material yet. In fairness to Mac, he dropped a lot of the older lads and trie to make inter-county hurlers out of younger players. This can only be good for the future of Offaly hurling rather than recalling lads like Colm Cassidy. The majority of hurlers on that panel wouldnt be within an asses roar of a panel in a lot of counties and I dont think their doing too bad as a result. I think theres a fair chance Offaly could beat Clare in the qualifiers this year and a quarter final would be a fantastic achievement for such a limited group of hurlers

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Re: Debate

Post by Lone Shark » Thu May 24, 2007 11:29 am

The Biff wrote: p.s. Lone Shark, what in the namajayzus are you doing posting on this DB at 1:25 in the morning? Dont tell me you stayed up to watch the Ecuador soccer match? Ya wally!
He who pays the piper calls the tune Biff. Sadly if it's on Irish TV and it's live sport, yours truly will be there, armed with a laptop, pining for a return to my former life pulling pints in the local.

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Post by Offalys Future » Fri May 25, 2007 3:31 am

Slasher wrote:I keep an eye on this forum without ever posting but have to have a say here. While I agree that Offaly's results have been poor of late, I wouldnt be too quick to blame McIntrye. Having hurled under him I can assure you that he is a very shrewd operator who leaves no stone unturned in the preparation of his team.
No stone unturned are you kidding me?! they have never talked about tactics, free takers dont practice frees in training, goalkeepers have trained specifically for goals less than 5 times.
are we taling about the same John McIntyre here?

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Post by Plain of the Herbs » Fri May 25, 2007 9:20 am

Edit: deleted.
Last edited by Plain of the Herbs on Fri May 25, 2007 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Slasher » Fri May 25, 2007 12:01 pm

Offalys Future wrote:
Slasher wrote:I keep an eye on this forum without ever posting but have to have a say here. While I agree that Offaly's results have been poor of late, I wouldnt be too quick to blame McIntrye. Having hurled under him I can assure you that he is a very shrewd operator who leaves no stone unturned in the preparation of his team.
No stone unturned are you kidding me?! they have never talked about tactics, free takers dont practice frees in training, goalkeepers have trained specifically for goals less than 5 times.
are we taling about the same John McIntyre here?
I was talking about my experience of him, and I thought he was tactically astute. Also, county players shouldnt have to go to training to take frees. Im sure they can other time for thsi. Five goalkeeping drills? Again a lot of this stuff should be done on your own. The man is preparing an intercounty team, not a team of clowns. You cant be spoon-feeding lads at this level

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Post by Dingle » Fri May 25, 2007 12:46 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:
Offalys Future wrote:
Slasher wrote:I keep an eye on this forum without ever posting but have to have a say here. While I agree that Offaly's results have been poor of late, I wouldnt be too quick to blame McIntrye. Having hurled under him I can assure you that he is a very shrewd operator who leaves no stone unturned in the preparation of his team.
No stone unturned are you kidding me?! they have never talked about tactics, free takers dont practice frees in training, goalkeepers have trained specifically for goals less than 5 times.
are we taling about the same John McIntyre here?
It’s clear you don’t enjoy this hurling lark.

I suggest you buy a rod and reel and take yourself off fishing on Sunday. Or do your homework. Your English is terrible.

I’ve every confidence in Offaly’s future. As for Offalys Future (sic), he needs to chill out.
I'd love to know where you are getting this confidence in Offaly's hurling future? On the week when the minors, yet again, failed to make the Leinster semi finals and the seniors already relegated there is no room for confidence. Offaly hurling is in freefall.

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Post by Offalys Future » Fri May 25, 2007 2:30 pm

It’s clear you don’t enjoy this hurling lark.

I suggest you buy a rod and reel and take yourself off fishing on Sunday. Or do your homework. Your English is terrible.

I’ve every confidence in Offaly’s future. As for Offalys Future (sic), he needs to chill out.
i dont know how you could say that i dont enjoy hurling from my previous comments, and i will be present as ever on Sunday.

You say that you have every confidence in Offalys future but yet you wont tell us why you think this, instead you go and make smart remarks about me.
I am on this forum to talk hurling and to tell it the way it is. if you have something to say hurling wise then say it.


was talking about my experience of him, and I thought he was tactically astute. Also, county players shouldnt have to go to training to take frees. Im sure they can other time for thsi. Five goalkeeping drills? Again a lot of this stuff should be done on your own. The man is preparing an intercounty team, not a team of clowns. You cant be spoon-feeding lads at this level
Are you kidding me, please tell me that you you are just trying to rise me?
that is why Offay hurling is the way it is, because people like you think that all you have to do is go training run laps, have pride in the jersey and win. that day is gone.
gaa has become more advanced in so many areas and the likes of offaly are been left behind.
this might or might not interest you but heres 2 websites that most counties in Ireland have for their players
http://www.sporttracker.ie
http://www.elitesportsanalysis.com/
while the likes of Offaly still dont even do drills for the different positions on the field, Cork, tipperary, kerry, armagh, tyrone, clare, waterford etc have gone to this level.
i'm interested to know what type of training should a goalkeeper be doing so?
In terms of free taking, anybody can go down to their local hurling field and put balls over the bar for sport with no1 watching.
Free taking is about taking the player out of his comfort zone, putting him under pressure and seeing how he responds.
But like i have said its things like this that arent been worked at.
you watch Offalys free takers the weekend and see how many frees they miss.

we had before naturally talented players in the county but we dont have that anymore. Our players need to work on their skills and be perfecting them at every opportunity they get.
Instead at senior, minor, u-16, u-14, u-12 county level they dont get this and the majority of the training they do is irrelevant.

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