Minors hurlers 2022

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
jimbob17
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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by jimbob17 » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:36 pm

Huge performance. Dominant all over field bar last 5 mins. Tackling and effort was immense. It will be a lesson well learned.

Many going down route of ref blaming which I think is wrong. Not mentioned on Sunday Game. There were other reasons we lost - missed chances in first half being one. Certainly wasn't a square ball at end of game. On issue of free at end, could easily be interpreted that there wasn't a foul on Offaly defender as Offaly defender was never in possession coming out.

Re The penalty incident (hurley throw), does that rule re professional/cynical foul apply at underage level? I actually don't know, but there certainly are differences between Hurling and football and camoige etc on these new rules and between senior and underage and between inter county and club. All rules need to be standardised I think to avoid confusion. If rule does apply it should certainly have been a penalty even if it occurred outside the box as it was clear goal chance.

All told, a hugely proud day where we showed we have genuine talent coming and lots of reasons for optimism.

In my opinion, Co board should get a schools team or maybe even two combined teams into A schools competition next year. Join North Offaly Schools for one incl Tullamore CBS Kilcormac and Killina and South Offaly (join Birr and Banagher) for another for purposes of keeping them involved at high level of hurling and fill void for those who won't make u20 in 2023. This group not underage for minor next year should be kept together also for S&C and management should be kept on for next year's minors and move to u20s in 2024.

There is a buzz now around both Hurling and football at underage now in County and its really important that good coaching and high standards are maintained through the dev squad years for younger players coming through.
jimbob

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Doon Exile » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:43 pm

jimbob17 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:36 pm
Huge performance. Dominant all over field bar last 5 mins. Tackling and effort was immense. It will be a lesson well learned.

Many going down route of ref blaming which I think is wrong. Not mentioned on Sunday Game. There were other reasons we lost - missed chances in first half being one. Certainly wasn't a square ball at end of game. On issue of free at end, could easily be interpreted that there wasn't a foul on Offaly defender as Offaly defender was never in possession coming out.

Re The penalty incident (hurley throw), does that rule re professional/cynical foul apply at underage level? I actually don't know, but there certainly are differences between Hurling and football and camoige etc on these new rules and between senior and underage and between inter county and club. All rules need to be standardised I think to avoid confusion. If rule does apply it should certainly have been a penalty even if it occurred outside the box as it was clear goal chance.

All told, a hugely proud day where we showed we have genuine talent coming and lots of reasons for optimism.

In my opinion, Co board should get a schools team or maybe even two combined teams into A schools competition next year. Join North Offaly Schools for one incl Tullamore CBS Kilcormac and Killina and South Offaly (join Birr and Banagher) for another for purposes of keeping them involved at high level of hurling and fill void for those who won't make u20 in 2023. This group not underage for minor next year should be kept together also for S&C and management should be kept on for next year's minors and move to u20s in 2024.

There is a buzz now around both Hurling and football at underage now in County and its really important that good coaching and high standards are maintained through the dev squad years for younger players coming through.
Well said.
Doon exile....

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Bord na Mona man » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:59 pm

Forget about the outcome. Nothing changed. We still have the same bunch of very promising hurlers today as we had yesterday.
You can argue about decisions, outcomes, game management and all that stuff, but these lads were all aged 16 or less at the start of the year.
When I think back to how little I could do or how little I knew at 16, the standard of the players we have is savage.

Tipperary. Well done to them, they stuck at and never gave up. For most of the game they were hanging in. At various times their full back line looked ripe for plundering but they muddled through. Offaly could have been 9 or 10 ahead at half time and maybe Tipp took some hope out of that.
When they were down to 14 they went for broke. You don't get lucky unless you try.

The best teams and the best players don't always win.
Turn that on it's head. In a few years these Offaly players will be going up against well oiled machines like Limerick, Galway and Kilkenny as severe underdogs. If they're a few points behind we'll want them to keep trying also.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by ah lethimoutwithit » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:01 am

2 very good posts (last 2).

Heart goes out to our lads who worked their socks off and were fantastic. Rarely will a team play so well and lose.
I want to compliment the players, their families and all who have played any role in getting them to the level that they got to yesterday.

There is a homecoming and whilst the players may not feel like it, it would be great to see a big crowd out to support them.

As was said, a lot to admire with Tipp also, they hung in there and got the break, cruel and all as it is, that is sport.

I'll look at it again but I think we really had Tipp on the rack when we went 6 up and couldn't secure another score, and naturally enough there was a nervousness there that led to us funnelling back. Bench is also crucial.

But to the players, please get the heads up, this was always going to be about development given your age profiles. So much experience gained with the number of games, and hopefully we can get progression at schools and U20 to drive on hurling in the county and have senior players with the attributes to lift things to the next level. You inspired me as an "Old" man, I'm sure that there are a generation of hurlers hoping to follow and build on the marvelous progress you made this year.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:12 am

I see social media is still ablaze with discussion of the refereeing and specifically the last free.
While it can cathartic to hear the consensus that Offaly were shafted amongst the wider hurling fraternity, ultimately it's futile to stay fixated on it.
Anger within the county and sympathy from outside is not going to change the outcome.

When one team falls behind, or gets reduced to 14 players refs tend to start helping them. This is inevitable. The Offaly players got a harsh lesson in this but they'll see it plenty more time in their careers - both ways.
It's an uncontrollable, and you have to stay focussed on what you can control.

On the other hand they'll learn that immediately after the goal, the ref would have been desperate to make it a draw.
If Offaly managed to string any kind of sequence of possession together, Hynes would have bent over backwards to award a levelling free.
Unfortunately we lost the ball and that was that.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Faithful Future » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:52 am

What is there to say only that the entire team were absolutely exceptional - the biggest game of their lives, in a cauldron of 25,000 people and they
put in the most impressive performance to date against a very strong Tipp outfit. What more can we ask for - was very proud to be from Offaly yesterday.

Fast hurling, great movement, brilliant tackling and work-rate from 1-15 and the subs that came in.
Whatever the management team have been doing with this team, it is evidently working.

Our goalkeeper was excellent, made a fantastic save and his distribution was consistently very good.
Our full back line played with great bravery and tenacity leading to Tipperary's star full forward being taken off. A proper modern day full back line who call all hurl very well.
Our half back line were exceptional, strong in the air, driving forward and even chipping in with scores.
Midfield worked tirelessly and dropped back where necessary to snuff out danger.
Half forward line were a constant thorn in their markers side and were well able to front up to the physical stuff thrown at them as well as taking some wonderful scores.
Although the inside line will deservedly get the most plaudits for their fantastic scoring, what I really loved was how they continued to chase down balls that they had no right to win and put pressure on the Tipp ball coming out - these extra seconds were vital in our defence getting realigned and shows the team work ethic instilled by the management.

While they may not have the medals they coveted and probably deserved, they have given the entire county a lift.
The roof was nearly lifted off Nowlan Park with Uibh Fhaile chants which will live long in the memory.

Hopefully these young men can realise how proud we all are of them - Offaly heroes.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Anonymous1 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:51 pm

jimbob17 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:36 pm
Huge performance. Dominant all over field bar last 5 mins. Tackling and effort was immense. It will be a lesson well learned.

Many going down route of ref blaming which I think is wrong. Not mentioned on Sunday Game. There were other reasons we lost - missed chances in first half being one. Certainly wasn't a square ball at end of game. On issue of free at end, could easily be interpreted that there wasn't a foul on Offaly defender as Offaly defender was never in possession coming out.

Re The penalty incident (hurley throw), does that rule re professional/cynical foul apply at underage level? I actually don't know, but there certainly are differences between Hurling and football and camoige etc on these new rules and between senior and underage and between inter county and club. All rules need to be standardised I think to avoid confusion. If rule does apply it should certainly have been a penalty even if it occurred outside the box as it was clear goal chance.

All told, a hugely proud day where we showed we have genuine talent coming and lots of reasons for optimism.

In my opinion, Co board should get a schools team or maybe even two combined teams into A schools competition next year. Join North Offaly Schools for one incl Tullamore CBS Kilcormac and Killina and South Offaly (join Birr and Banagher) for another for purposes of keeping them involved at high level of hurling and fill void for those who won't make u20 in 2023. This group not underage for minor next year should be kept together also for S&C and management should be kept on for next year's minors and move to u20s in 2024.

There is a buzz now around both Hurling and football at underage now in County and its really important that good coaching and high standards are maintained through the dev squad years for younger players coming through.
I have rewatched the goal at the end a number of times and it’s clear to me that there are two Tipp players inside the square before the sliotar arrived which is a square ball.

On the free not given at the end, you can also argue the opposite, that the reason the Offaly player wasn’t in possession of the ball was because he was fouled in the process of controlling it. I think the vast majority of neutrals would agree that was a foul.

On the hurl being thrown to deny a goal-scoring opportunity, if it’s a penalty for that offence at Senior then why on earth would it not be one at Minor? If that’s the case then you’re going to see a lot more of that offence late in minor games to prevent goals...

Lastly, has anyone identified why the ref called back a wide in the 63rd minute for Tipp and awarded them a free. Some online are saying he’d given Tipp advantage but watching it back, it’s impossible to spot any infringement in this passage of play and the ref also doesn’t have his arm raised upright as to indicate advantage being played.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Kevin » Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:43 pm

Gut wrenching result, but congrats to the Minors on an outstanding season.

Lots to be proud of.

Keep up the great work!
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by private joker » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:00 pm

It wasn't a square ball for the tipp goal. They followed it in. Offaly should have won. No doubt.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by kingscounty » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:02 pm

Just Watched James Woodlock’s interview before the game yesterday on Tg4, what he said paid dividends in the last 10 minutes of the game. He more less stated Offaly were reliant on the 15 and that it had worked well for them, and in contrast he spoke about Tipp and the importance for them of the panel of 25/26 players in all their games throughout the year! We seemed to just run out of steam after the sending off where they seemed to get a boost of energy.
I don’t see any harm in analysing or debating the game and we are all so gutted, no point dwelling on decisions the ref made or this lad didn’t do this or that, spin it around use it as a positive.
The positives: The players (can’t speak any higher)
The management (excellent)
The supporters (unbelievable)
‘Strive for progress, Not perfection’

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:09 pm

Agree that Furlong was fouled, but it was one of those 1/2 or 3/4 fouls that sometimes go unpunished.
And the ref had just let one go where Brecon Kavanagh looked to have impeded the Tipp player to cause the ball to go loose.

It was a square ball but only slightly. The reality is, they don't get given when it's a marginal call like that.
At this stage you could go over every passage of play and find some fault. Fellas taking step, throw balls, pushes, shoves.
If every rule was enforced and play was stopped, it would be stop start like American Football.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:42 pm

a sickening way to lose, but like most above, we never really put Tipperary away once we were dominant (fair dues to Tipp they didnt let us get out of sight and we shot way too many wides at critical junctures when ahead) We hit the post with two frees (think we recycled one of those and got a point) The hard part too is we were 5 or 6 points ahead at end of normal time, and whether it was the Limerick curse of 1994 where Leo O'Connor came on as sub, you simply cannot let a lead like that slip, eaten away to a point or two maybe, but not fully.

Killian Martin or whatever his name is was not as influential as previous games (again you have to say Tipp were a step up in opposition) and I felt once he went off, while he wasnt as good as always and carrying a heavy knock or other, his physicality was missed intstantly, not that the team still performed heroically but his battling ability was missed I thought. Our goal keeper made two massive massive saves, that should be remembered too, any of those if scored would no doubt have propelled Tipp into action. Their much spoken pre match scoring dynamo of Tom Delaney had a quiet game by his standards, no doubt thanks for the tight Offaly full back line, I think he got 2 or 3 points from play all the same before being replaced, that spoke volumes of how this Offaly defence played.

The throwing of the hurl was a seriouus incident, and a red card, I thought like most regardless of location once player was in on goal and only the keeper to beat, it should have been a penalty. It was a nasty thing to do. I know a hurl went in the Offaly box during a tipp attack but it wasnt head high didnt hit anyone. The free at the end, I dont know, I thought Offaly player was definitely fouled in the lead up, seconds before he appeared to be impeded or tripped someway coming out with the ball, the ref thought not obviously. He had ok of a game up to the above incidents but he knows the rules and he seen it as he seen it so we have to grant the man that much.

It was a sickening loss, we can gloss it up all we want, that game was left behind us without a shaddow of a doubt, we dont get to many all Irelands, and to play like that yesterday and and be 60% better team for 99% of the match and lose is tough. Well done all and hopefully we will bounce back and this bunch go onto U20 level as competitive.

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Onionbag » Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:47 pm

Regarding the two tipp players in the square, they had no contact with the ball. The free near the end 50/50.

All in all the better team lost.

Nothing can be done about it now.

Take our defeat move on.

Great Campaign

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by jimbob17 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:02 pm

Anonymous1 wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:51 pm
jimbob17 wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:36 pm
Huge performance. Dominant all over field bar last 5 mins. Tackling and effort was immense. It will be a lesson well learned.

Many going down route of ref blaming which I think is wrong. Not mentioned on Sunday Game. There were other reasons we lost - missed chances in first half being one. Certainly wasn't a square ball at end of game. On issue of free at end, could easily be interpreted that there wasn't a foul on Offaly defender as Offaly defender was never in possession coming out.

Re The penalty incident (hurley throw), does that rule re professional/cynical foul apply at underage level? I actually don't know, but there certainly are differences between Hurling and football and camoige etc on these new rules and between senior and underage and between inter county and club. All rules need to be standardised I think to avoid confusion. If rule does apply it should certainly have been a penalty even if it occurred outside the box as it was clear goal chance.

All told, a hugely proud day where we showed we have genuine talent coming and lots of reasons for optimism.

In my opinion, Co board should get a schools team or maybe even two combined teams into A schools competition next year. Join North Offaly Schools for one incl Tullamore CBS Kilcormac and Killina and South Offaly (join Birr and Banagher) for another for purposes of keeping them involved at high level of hurling and fill void for those who won't make u20 in 2023. This group not underage for minor next year should be kept together also for S&C and management should be kept on for next year's minors and move to u20s in 2024.

There is a buzz now around both Hurling and football at underage now in County and its really important that good coaching and high standards are maintained through the dev squad years for younger players coming through.
I have rewatched the goal at the end a number of times and it’s clear to me that there are two Tipp players inside the square before the sliotar arrived which is a square ball.

On the free not given at the end, you can also argue the opposite, that the reason the Offaly player wasn’t in possession of the ball was because he was fouled in the process of controlling it. I think the vast majority of neutrals would agree that was a foul.

On the hurl being thrown to deny a goal-scoring opportunity, if it’s a penalty for that offence at Senior then why on earth would it not be one at Minor? If that’s the case then you’re going to see a lot more of that offence late in minor games to prevent goals...

Lastly, has anyone identified why the ref called back a wide in the 63rd minute for Tipp and awarded them a free. Some online are saying he’d given Tipp advantage but watching it back, it’s impossible to spot any infringement in this passage of play and the ref also doesn’t have his arm raised upright as to indicate advantage being played.
The rule for square ball is that you can not be in the square when the ball is struck. There was no tipp player in square when ball was struck. They followed it in and had the momentum of a run to out jump stationary OY backs who were jumping from standing position. Whatever about moaning about penalty incident, It certainly was not a square ball. If GK comes out in that instance, he has be sure to make contact with ball, otherwise, should stay on line. Its a lesson learned, that Offaly taught numerous teams at Senior level in the past in both Hurling and football. 82 and 94 spring to mind.

Lots of other reasons we lost and blaming referee makes it look like sour grapes. Tipp had threatened goals and we withstood for a long time with some excellent defending and great saves from goalie. We had our chances. We didn't finish it out. Missed frees in first 15 mins were also an issue and not blaming, just don't like idea of putting it all down to ref.. if players do that, they are not learning. Other reasons and variables also came into mix. Would management take off Cillian Martin and Shirley if they had it over again? Again no blame, and obviously had reasons, but supporters need to stop blaming referee as its not in any way helpful.
jimbob

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Re: Minors hurlers 2022

Post by Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:20 pm

jimbob17 wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:02 pm
The rule for square ball is that you can not be in the square when the ball is struck. There was no tipp player in square when ball was struck. They followed it in and had the momentum of a run to out jump stationary OY backs who were jumping from standing position. Whatever about moaning about penalty incident, It certainly was not a square ball.
That's the football rule though. Hurling is still operating under the original rule where a player can't be in the square before the ball.

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